a nice little waterfall
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I would tend to agree. Rocky, it looks like you used a polarizer, is that correct?
Anyone else care to comment? There's more factors at work here too.
I'll give it until tomorrow as well in case anyone else wants to comment, then post my thoughts.
For now, I'll simply say that you should always remember the comments are about the photograph, not the photographer, or at least they should be. We don't permit personal attacks on this forum. If that happens, the member in question will be warned, possibly moderated and if the offense continues, banned. Fortunately, we haven't had that problem yet, and I hope we never do. But I've seen it occur on other forums where somebody gets a grudge against another member. I've even seen a time or two here where a member was quick to post a critique of my work after I made a similiar comment on his photos. The comments were fair, and not personal, but it was also apparent he'd been waiting for the chance to say it.
Critiques are tough. You put a lot of time and effort into a photo, and hearing somebody say something negative about it can hurt. It helps to remember it's not personal, but it's still tough. It's like batting practice, you'll get better, but you're also going to miss the ball on occasion. If you're not stretching your skills, you're not getting better.
Keep this in mind... You cannot take photos to please everyone. If you try, you'll most likely end up pleasing nobody. Given that, there will always be somebody who doesn't like your work. Don't worry about it. I see work by world famous photographers that I look at and just say "I don't get it..."
In the end, you only need to please one person, and that's the client. If you're shooting for fun, the "client" is you. Do you like your photos? If so, then it doesn't matter what anyone else thinks.
Done this type of shot a time or two before, eh?
You're certainly right about that!
I agree on both counts. I liked the reflection of the falls in mine, but I dind't like the compromise (lack of polarizer, reflection on the leaves) that I had to make to get it.
My shot is actually from last year. Presumably Rocky's shot is from this year. The foliage on the right looks a bit different, not sure if it started growing up, or some photographer did some selective pruning over the winter. (If they did, it wasn't me, I'd have got the branch on the left too... Of course "pruning" in a national park is frowned upon, so I'd suggest not trying it.)
this past Sunday, in fact...
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Snuffy, I'm glad you found this thread. I'm going to try an experiment...
OK folks, here's a "nearly identical" photo. I cropped it as close to Rocky's as I could, but then again, that wasn't hard, since they were nearly the same to start with. Obviously we were in very nearly the same location, and apparently framed the shot pretty much the same way... How about a critique? Which shot is better, and why? (Yes, I'm pretty sure I know the answer...)
View attachment 7137
Oh, and one more thing. This proves that before you get all upset about seeing one of "your" photos on the web in print and start thinking somebody took your photo, you'd better look at them really closely.
OK folks, here's a "nearly identical" photo. I cropped it as close to Rocky's as I could, but then again, that wasn't hard, since they were nearly the same to start with. Obviously we were in very nearly the same location, and apparently framed the shot pretty much the same way... How about a critique? Which shot is better, and why? (Yes, I'm pretty sure I know the answer...)
View attachment 7137
Oh, and one more thing. This proves that before you get all upset about seeing one of "your" photos on the web in print and start thinking somebody took your photo, you'd better look at them really closely.
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interesting experiment, Bob... there's really a pretty limited set of options for shooting this falls... a few degrees off to either side, but if you do that, the branches intrude. this shot has been taken to death, i'm sure, but it's just such a pretty little waterfall, sometimes i just can't resist! 
Rocky, hopefully you don't mind playing along. Yes, this falls gets shot a lot, as you know, it's right by the road. If you back up, you get run over by an RV. Step forward, and you're in that pretty little lake. Take more than a step or two sideways and the trees are in the way. The day I visited there was a small line of photographers all waiting for the one "magic spot" where the branches were the least intrusive. I'm not sure, but I think the park service has to come by and fill in the tripods holes every season .
Because it is a common shot, and you and I have near duplicates, it's a good one to try and compare how two seemingly identical shots can actually be different.
Rockly already touched on one factor, compare the branches in his shot to mine....
. Because it is a common shot, and you and I have near duplicates, it's a good one to try and compare how two seemingly identical shots can actually be different.
Rockly already touched on one factor, compare the branches in his shot to mine....
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I would tend to agree. Rocky, it looks like you used a polarizer, is that correct?
Anyone else care to comment? There's more factors at work here too.
I will come back to this tomorrow..
I'll give it until tomorrow as well in case anyone else wants to comment, then post my thoughts.
For now, I'll simply say that you should always remember the comments are about the photograph, not the photographer, or at least they should be. We don't permit personal attacks on this forum. If that happens, the member in question will be warned, possibly moderated and if the offense continues, banned. Fortunately, we haven't had that problem yet, and I hope we never do. But I've seen it occur on other forums where somebody gets a grudge against another member. I've even seen a time or two here where a member was quick to post a critique of my work after I made a similiar comment on his photos. The comments were fair, and not personal, but it was also apparent he'd been waiting for the chance to say it.
Critiques are tough. You put a lot of time and effort into a photo, and hearing somebody say something negative about it can hurt. It helps to remember it's not personal, but it's still tough. It's like batting practice, you'll get better, but you're also going to miss the ball on occasion. If you're not stretching your skills, you're not getting better.
Keep this in mind... You cannot take photos to please everyone. If you try, you'll most likely end up pleasing nobody. Given that, there will always be somebody who doesn't like your work. Don't worry about it. I see work by world famous photographers that I look at and just say "I don't get it..."
In the end, you only need to please one person, and that's the client. If you're shooting for fun, the "client" is you. Do you like your photos? If so, then it doesn't matter what anyone else thinks.
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yep... i rarely shoot landscape shots without one...
Done this type of shot a time or two before, eh?
OK, here's my comments on the photos.
Obviously I think Rocky has the better shot. I wouldn't have done the "challenge" otherwise. I picked the best shot I had from a series I took of that waterfall, but it just doesn't quite measure up.
I didn't use a polarizer, so I've got more glare.
My shot has more branches obscuring the waterfall.
Rcoky's shot has deeper and richer colors (probably from the polarizer)
His shot also has better definition, the light wasn't quite as flat as when I took mine.
The waterfall in his shot looks better too, probably from a longer exposure and/or more water flow.
So, his shot has a lot of small things going for it that make it significantly better than mine. Even though they look like pretty much the same exact photo, they're not.
If I was a novice photographer and posted my shot, I might wonder why it didn't get as many "great shot!" comments as Rocky's did, or possibly why folks critiqued my shot, but not his. "They're the same shot! I guess they like Rocky better..."
It's easy to feel that way sometimes. You have to not take critiques personally, and also realize that many times the difference between a good photo and a great photo is very subtle details that can be hard to notice at first. That's why I used this shot, by having two "identical" images, I could take away any question of composition and angle etc.
I hope this helps explain why critiques can vary even when it seems they shouldn't.
Obviously I think Rocky has the better shot. I wouldn't have done the "challenge" otherwise. I picked the best shot I had from a series I took of that waterfall, but it just doesn't quite measure up.
I didn't use a polarizer, so I've got more glare.
My shot has more branches obscuring the waterfall.
Rcoky's shot has deeper and richer colors (probably from the polarizer)
His shot also has better definition, the light wasn't quite as flat as when I took mine.
The waterfall in his shot looks better too, probably from a longer exposure and/or more water flow.
So, his shot has a lot of small things going for it that make it significantly better than mine. Even though they look like pretty much the same exact photo, they're not.
If I was a novice photographer and posted my shot, I might wonder why it didn't get as many "great shot!" comments as Rocky's did, or possibly why folks critiqued my shot, but not his. "They're the same shot! I guess they like Rocky better..."
It's easy to feel that way sometimes. You have to not take critiques personally, and also realize that many times the difference between a good photo and a great photo is very subtle details that can be hard to notice at first. That's why I used this shot, by having two "identical" images, I could take away any question of composition and angle etc.
I hope this helps explain why critiques can vary even when it seems they shouldn't.
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Mike, I didn't want to do that without Rocky's permission. It's bad enough I sprung this whole "critique challenge" on him without asking first, but I was pretty sure he'd be a good sport and play along with me.
The easiest way would probably be to open two browser windows, both on this thread and then scroll the two pages until the images are side by side.
The easiest way would probably be to open two browser windows, both on this thread and then scroll the two pages until the images are side by side.
Mike-PDX
New Member
t.a.n.s.t.a.a.f.l.
"There ain't no such thing as a free lunch." Life and photography are about compromise and balance.
It shows in these two photos. I agree with Bob in that Rocky's shot overall is a better compromise. The saturation of colors and position of the branches are better in Rocky's shot. However there is one aspect of Bob's shot that I like better - and that is the reflection of the falls in the pool. It is muted in Rocky's image exactly because he used a polarizer to cut the reflection on the leaves and obtain the saturated color that I like. It didn't come for free, IMHO, but overall it's a better balance and a good compromise.
As an aside; having photographed trains in the Gorge and the Blue Mountains for 25 years or so, I have noticed that in the Pacific Northwest things tend to grow. Shots that were great 20 years ago are completely obscured now by underbrush and trees. So a shot like this will likely be more dificult in 5 years. Just sayin'
"There ain't no such thing as a free lunch." Life and photography are about compromise and balance.
It shows in these two photos. I agree with Bob in that Rocky's shot overall is a better compromise. The saturation of colors and position of the branches are better in Rocky's shot. However there is one aspect of Bob's shot that I like better - and that is the reflection of the falls in the pool. It is muted in Rocky's image exactly because he used a polarizer to cut the reflection on the leaves and obtain the saturated color that I like. It didn't come for free, IMHO, but overall it's a better balance and a good compromise.
As an aside; having photographed trains in the Gorge and the Blue Mountains for 25 years or so, I have noticed that in the Pacific Northwest things tend to grow. Shots that were great 20 years ago are completely obscured now by underbrush and trees. So a shot like this will likely be more dificult in 5 years. Just sayin'
the other reason i used a polarizer, Mike, was because the polarizer lets some of the features beneath the water show, giving depth to what would otherwise be a flat surface. i could have used an ND filter to slow down the shutter, but chose the CPL because of its beneficial effects on saturation and depth.
You're certainly right about that!
I agree on both counts. I liked the reflection of the falls in mine, but I dind't like the compromise (lack of polarizer, reflection on the leaves) that I had to make to get it.
As an aside; having photographed trains in the Gorge and the Blue Mountains for 25 years or so, I have noticed that in the Pacific Northwest things tend to grow. Shots that were great 20 years ago are completely obscured now by underbrush and trees. So a shot like this will likely be more dificult in 5 years. Just sayin'
My shot is actually from last year. Presumably Rocky's shot is from this year. The foliage on the right looks a bit different, not sure if it started growing up, or some photographer did some selective pruning over the winter.
(If they did, it wasn't me, I'd have got the branch on the left too... Of course "pruning" in a national park is frowned upon, so I'd suggest not trying it.)
this past Sunday, in fact...
climbbike
New Member
For another perspective, I just saw this also on: http://starvingphotographer.com/blog/2011/07/late-snowmelt-mt-rainier/
It's the second photo so you have to scroll down.
It's the second photo so you have to scroll down.