Logan Valley Photos
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Im an amateur also, I enjoy seeing how different people "see" subjects.....I know I dont measure up to the high standards of the pro community........this site is by far the most kind on its critique of ones work........quite often I find that playing with cropping can liven up a shot....dont give up I wanna see more!
Exactly!!! And now that the last year or two we can see the public comments on ALL images it sure is an eye-opener to what people will highly praise. It just doesn't mean what it did when I first started out by ANY means.
BTW: I was a photo-moderator/approver there two years. You wouldn't believe the number of images I rejected every day.....plagerized (mostly stolen were copies of Mike Hollingshead's work), etc. Heck....some guy uploaded my FRIENDS images one day!! LOL. Silly rabbits.
Another reason why this site is so wonderful. Integrity.
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Snuffy2
Member
I dont remember who wrote the critics on my photo's that were posted on monday night, Deleted them all last night, The last couple of weeks I decided that I am no match for all the Pro Photographers in this site, There's not any fair game for a pro to comment on an amateur Photographer like myself. After the Scenic Photo's were posted, The same files were sent to my Facebook page, within an hour I had tons of praise for what I spent four hours driving in and back out for that remote spot, all on my friends list must not know any more than I do about Photography. I think squirl033 sent the critics, not sure, God help me if I am wrong, I still dont take the comments about the boring photo's as an insult....just very frustrated.
Next time I go out and shoot, I will always think: "tell a thousand words" "have a point" "is this worth framing?" (as in a real frame and glass hung on my wall)
Next time I go out and shoot, I will always think: "tell a thousand words" "have a point" "is this worth framing?" (as in a real frame and glass hung on my wall)
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Judy N
New Member
I am an amateur myself and I read what the "pros" say and learn from that. I also appreciate the time "they" take to really look at my photos and give me their honest opinion about the photos. I feel it is helpful. I know my photos need lots of work and I can't do it on my own. I take what they say and practice, practice, practice whether it be what they say about my photos or anyone else's. I have deleted many a photo and kept some. The reason I take photos is because I enjoy doing it and every once an awhile I get what I consider the perfect picture for me that inspires me to keep trying. Don't give up and Peterson's books have helped me understand principles much better than I use to. Sorry to give a speech but I just wanted you to hear from a nonpro.
Snuffy2
Member
Thanks Judy, last two days I felt like I was the only amateur in here, When I took those photo's on monday the weather turned off for the worst, fog, snow, the chill in the air, I want to go back and do some with the weather clear, last night it cleared up and 95*, I did that at the worst time..LOL, been reading thru the "Shutter Speed", stuff in there I never knew existed, and have been around still camera's and video recorders for about 45 years.
Happen to like the quote: There are moments when everything goes well, but dont be frightened. some reason seems like it fits me tonight.
Happen to like the quote: There are moments when everything goes well, but dont be frightened. some reason seems like it fits me tonight.
Snuffy2
I did not see the images or the comments but you may want to remove peoples names from your comments unless you know that they did, and even then not mention there name.
Next you may want to have a bit of thicker skin when showing your images off to the world. If they are technically correct and please you, they may not be up to the quality that others consider "Good", "Great", or "Total Poo".
Art is subjective and we have our likes and dislikes.
Ask how to improve in there eyes(most people that give C&C also let you know what they think needs to be corrected.), and see if it works for you or not. Getting free C&C is nice and do you really want every image getting comments like "WOW" or "great shot!" Wouldn't you prefer a comment like "I wish I could shoot like that."? Or "Can you teach me to shoot like that?"
Also Post up images that are your best 1 or 2. Don't post 4-8 because you can, post your best period.
I did not see the images or the comments but you may want to remove peoples names from your comments unless you know that they did, and even then not mention there name.
Next you may want to have a bit of thicker skin when showing your images off to the world. If they are technically correct and please you, they may not be up to the quality that others consider "Good", "Great", or "Total Poo".
Art is subjective and we have our likes and dislikes.
Ask how to improve in there eyes(most people that give C&C also let you know what they think needs to be corrected.), and see if it works for you or not. Getting free C&C is nice and do you really want every image getting comments like "WOW" or "great shot!" Wouldn't you prefer a comment like "I wish I could shoot like that."? Or "Can you teach me to shoot like that?"
Also Post up images that are your best 1 or 2. Don't post 4-8 because you can, post your best period.
Snuffy, I also missed the comments/critiques, so I can't comment on this particular situation.
However, I can make some general comments about critiques.
A reminder to everyone: Critiques are only permitted WHEN REQUESTED. This can be done in a variety of ways, including joining the Critiques OK group, posting in the "critique wanted" topic, or simply saying anything along the lines of "What do you think of these shots?"
If you do not ask for critiques, and comments are posted that you object to, let me know and I will remove them, along with reminding that member to keep the rules in mind. It is our goal to keep this forum as friendly and welcoming as possible for ALL photographers, no matter what skill level.
That said... If you want to become a better photographer, critiques are your friend, and I strongly encourage all members to request critiques and to learn from them. It doesn't matter if you're a pro or not, the chances are good that you'll get some useful info. The chances are also good that you won't agree with everything that's posted, and that's fine too... Yes, I know, it can be tough to read the comments, but it's worthwhile.
Think pros are immune from critiques? Well, take a look at some of the stuff Katie posts, and then the comments that are made. I think we can all agree she's a pro and does amazing work. Still, folks usually find something to comment on "Should have done this, might have cropped that..." Sometimes the problems are due to file compression (reducing file size also reduces quality) but often they're about the composition etc.
I happen to think her work is very good, and would love to be able to shoot as well as she does! So I figure that if even she's not immune to getting critiques, then it's OK for me too.
Putting your stuff out there and asking for critiques is hard. It can really be tough on your ego. But it's also a way to learn and grow in your photography skills. Keeping a couple things in mind can help. First of all, saying they don't like a certain photo does not mean they don't like the photographer. Secondly, since photography is an art, not a hard science, it is perfectly OK to disagree with the critiques. Just because I think your shot should have been done a certain way, your artistic intent may have been totally different. For most things there is no strict "right and wrong".
However, I can make some general comments about critiques.
A reminder to everyone: Critiques are only permitted WHEN REQUESTED. This can be done in a variety of ways, including joining the Critiques OK group, posting in the "critique wanted" topic, or simply saying anything along the lines of "What do you think of these shots?"
If you do not ask for critiques, and comments are posted that you object to, let me know and I will remove them, along with reminding that member to keep the rules in mind. It is our goal to keep this forum as friendly and welcoming as possible for ALL photographers, no matter what skill level.
That said... If you want to become a better photographer, critiques are your friend, and I strongly encourage all members to request critiques and to learn from them. It doesn't matter if you're a pro or not, the chances are good that you'll get some useful info. The chances are also good that you won't agree with everything that's posted, and that's fine too... Yes, I know, it can be tough to read the comments, but it's worthwhile.
Think pros are immune from critiques? Well, take a look at some of the stuff Katie posts, and then the comments that are made. I think we can all agree she's a pro and does amazing work. Still, folks usually find something to comment on "Should have done this, might have cropped that..." Sometimes the problems are due to file compression (reducing file size also reduces quality) but often they're about the composition etc.
I happen to think her work is very good, and would love to be able to shoot as well as she does! So I figure that if even she's not immune to getting critiques, then it's OK for me too.
Putting your stuff out there and asking for critiques is hard. It can really be tough on your ego. But it's also a way to learn and grow in your photography skills. Keeping a couple things in mind can help. First of all, saying they don't like a certain photo does not mean they don't like the photographer. Secondly, since photography is an art, not a hard science, it is perfectly OK to disagree with the critiques. Just because I think your shot should have been done a certain way, your artistic intent may have been totally different. For most things there is no strict "right and wrong".
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BrianH
New Member
Im an amateur also, I enjoy seeing how different people "see" subjects.....I know I dont measure up to the high standards of the pro community........this site is by far the most kind on its critique of ones work........quite often I find that playing with cropping can liven up a shot....dont give up I wanna see more!
Snuffy, you're correct, it was me who posted the critique of your landscape shots. as i mentioned in my post, my intent was not to be harsh, and certainly not insulting, but to offer ways to help you take better pictures. i apologize if you took in any other way.
as has been mentioned several times, photography, like any other art form, is very subjective, and people on Facebook - many of whom probably haven't a clue about how to take a good photo - may have entirely different opinions of what is "great" than people on this forum. and there are many other forums, including some i belong to, that are far more critical than this, where posting anything but the best images usually results in either no comment all, or someone tearing your work apart. as Shadow said, if you're going to post your work for all the world to see, you should expect that people will offer suggestions, and if you're thin-skinned and take offense when their comments are not as complimentary as you'd like, you'll find it hard to get an honest critique, and that will make it harder to learn and improve.
i've found that many people who comment on photos in online forums, or on Facebook for that matter, simply say, "great shot" no matter what they might actually think (especially if they're your friends), because they're afraid to hurt your feelings. well, sorry, but that ain't me. if i make a comment, i tell it like i see it. if the image really is a good shot, i say so. if the image needs help, i try to offer constructive criticism to help the photographer learn to make it better. i try to be diplomatic, but i can't control how my comments are received, and i long ago realized that if someone takes what i say the wrong way, that's their choice, and their problem. i understand it's hard to get subtle meanings from typewritten text online, but please understand that i, and others in this group, are never out to hurt or insult anyone. we do, however, want to help others learn and grow, and that sometimes means being critical of their work and offering ways to make it better.
as for being "the only amateur in here", trust me, you're not, not by a long shot! there are photographers of all ages and experience levels here. i'm certainly not a professional, but i have been involved in photography for well over 25 years. i've had my work published, and have made a bit of money at it here and there, and i probably know just enough to be dangerous. i've also been posting and reading in online forums for 6 years or so, and i've learned that most of the time, when other photographers offer advice, there's some nugget there that i can benefit from. i can tell by the quality of their work whether or not they're qualified to judge mine; if i feel that they are, i take their advice, try it, and if it works, great! if i don't feel their comments are useful, i simply ignore them.
i hope maybe this has cleared the air a bit, and i hope you will post more of your images. don't stop practicing, and don't stop learning. don't take offense at others' advice on things like lighting, composition, etc., take it for what it is - a suggestion on how you might improve your work. if you like the results, great, keep doing it. if you don't, feel free to ignore the suggestions and move on. it's that simple.
as has been mentioned several times, photography, like any other art form, is very subjective, and people on Facebook - many of whom probably haven't a clue about how to take a good photo - may have entirely different opinions of what is "great" than people on this forum. and there are many other forums, including some i belong to, that are far more critical than this, where posting anything but the best images usually results in either no comment all, or someone tearing your work apart. as Shadow said, if you're going to post your work for all the world to see, you should expect that people will offer suggestions, and if you're thin-skinned and take offense when their comments are not as complimentary as you'd like, you'll find it hard to get an honest critique, and that will make it harder to learn and improve.
i've found that many people who comment on photos in online forums, or on Facebook for that matter, simply say, "great shot" no matter what they might actually think (especially if they're your friends), because they're afraid to hurt your feelings. well, sorry, but that ain't me. if i make a comment, i tell it like i see it. if the image really is a good shot, i say so. if the image needs help, i try to offer constructive criticism to help the photographer learn to make it better. i try to be diplomatic, but i can't control how my comments are received, and i long ago realized that if someone takes what i say the wrong way, that's their choice, and their problem. i understand it's hard to get subtle meanings from typewritten text online, but please understand that i, and others in this group, are never out to hurt or insult anyone. we do, however, want to help others learn and grow, and that sometimes means being critical of their work and offering ways to make it better.
as for being "the only amateur in here", trust me, you're not, not by a long shot! there are photographers of all ages and experience levels here. i'm certainly not a professional, but i have been involved in photography for well over 25 years. i've had my work published, and have made a bit of money at it here and there, and i probably know just enough to be dangerous. i've also been posting and reading in online forums for 6 years or so, and i've learned that most of the time, when other photographers offer advice, there's some nugget there that i can benefit from. i can tell by the quality of their work whether or not they're qualified to judge mine; if i feel that they are, i take their advice, try it, and if it works, great! if i don't feel their comments are useful, i simply ignore them.
i hope maybe this has cleared the air a bit, and i hope you will post more of your images. don't stop practicing, and don't stop learning. don't take offense at others' advice on things like lighting, composition, etc., take it for what it is - a suggestion on how you might improve your work. if you like the results, great, keep doing it. if you don't, feel free to ignore the suggestions and move on. it's that simple.
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I gotta add something from my own learning experience (which is still an ongoing event).
There is a national photography site that I posted at and usually won an Approver's Choice award every 5th to 10th image or so. They typically only gave out 5 to 10 a day with between 700-1000 uploads a day. I got tons of 9's and 10's. Lots of praise. I felt pretty good about my successes there.
One day a photographer from Alaska named John (whom I respected very very much) wrote me. He wanted me to know he had been worried about me. He saw all the praise. The high ratings. But he wasn't impressed and he didn't want me resting on my laurels when he felt I did have a great eye. He told me 95% of my ratings were way over the top. He said most of my images were maybe an 8 to 8.5 AT BEST. He gave me some examples of why. Crooked horizons. Poor composition. Poor lighting. Blown whites. Lost shadows. It went on and on. He also mentioned how easy it is to make a photo look even better at 640x480 etc and that itself wasn't much of an accomplishment.
Like most artists, I am an emotional and overly sensitive person and I took this very hard. I cried and even deleted a ton of photos. I told myself I would never post there again. It HURT! Then, I took a photography course in college. Guess what they had. OPEN CRITIQUE.
Every single image we turned in had to be shown to the class and then OPENLY critiqued by the class.
*INSERT SOUNDBYTE OF ANGELS SINGING AND TRUMPETS BLARING*
I got it!!!! ALL images have SOMETHING that 'could' be better to someone. Also, I listened. They WERE right, as was John at that site. I WAS blowing out whites. I WAS losing textures in shadows. I DID have a lot of noise in my skies. I DID have crooked horizons. Some images WERE too contrasty (yet I admit that is me and I like it like that) while some were exceedingly flat.
That semester in college was the period of time I grew most as a photographer.
Critique is sometimes very hard to hear but it is (IMO) far more welcome than the empty praise of those who think my flat, crooked, noisy snapshots of a flower are amazing.
NO one here would want to discourage. I sincerely hope you continue to post and that you will even ask for critique at times as this crowd here represents so many different skills and experiences and insights that it would be a waste to not take advantage of their generosity. Seriously. I have been to sites where the pro's WON'T offer their tips and secrets and where they WON'T offer you chances to tag along and learn. Here, they do. I love that about our pro's here. ♥
Again....please keep posting and sharing.
btw: John and I are friends again. His honest feedback that year was hard to hear, but now is priceless to me
There is a national photography site that I posted at and usually won an Approver's Choice award every 5th to 10th image or so. They typically only gave out 5 to 10 a day with between 700-1000 uploads a day. I got tons of 9's and 10's. Lots of praise. I felt pretty good about my successes there.
One day a photographer from Alaska named John (whom I respected very very much) wrote me. He wanted me to know he had been worried about me. He saw all the praise. The high ratings. But he wasn't impressed and he didn't want me resting on my laurels when he felt I did have a great eye. He told me 95% of my ratings were way over the top. He said most of my images were maybe an 8 to 8.5 AT BEST. He gave me some examples of why. Crooked horizons. Poor composition. Poor lighting. Blown whites. Lost shadows. It went on and on. He also mentioned how easy it is to make a photo look even better at 640x480 etc and that itself wasn't much of an accomplishment.
Like most artists, I am an emotional and overly sensitive person and I took this very hard. I cried and even deleted a ton of photos. I told myself I would never post there again. It HURT! Then, I took a photography course in college. Guess what they had. OPEN CRITIQUE.
Every single image we turned in had to be shown to the class and then OPENLY critiqued by the class.
*INSERT SOUNDBYTE OF ANGELS SINGING AND TRUMPETS BLARING*
I got it!!!! ALL images have SOMETHING that 'could' be better to someone. Also, I listened. They WERE right, as was John at that site. I WAS blowing out whites. I WAS losing textures in shadows. I DID have a lot of noise in my skies. I DID have crooked horizons. Some images WERE too contrasty (yet I admit that is me and I like it like that) while some were exceedingly flat.
That semester in college was the period of time I grew most as a photographer.
Critique is sometimes very hard to hear but it is (IMO) far more welcome than the empty praise of those who think my flat, crooked, noisy snapshots of a flower are amazing.
NO one here would want to discourage. I sincerely hope you continue to post and that you will even ask for critique at times as this crowd here represents so many different skills and experiences and insights that it would be a waste to not take advantage of their generosity. Seriously. I have been to sites where the pro's WON'T offer their tips and secrets and where they WON'T offer you chances to tag along and learn. Here, they do. I love that about our pro's here. ♥
Again....please keep posting and sharing.
btw: John and I are friends again. His honest feedback that year was hard to hear, but now is priceless to me
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i know that site, Leia... have had my share of ACs there myself, and lots of people saying things like, "WOW!" ... but many of them don't know what it is they like, and couldn't tell you what might be improved or how, even if you asked 'em! i still post there from time to time, but i've learned to put a loss less credence in the comments...
i know that site, Leia.......but i've learned to put a loss less credence in the comments...
Exactly!!! And now that the last year or two we can see the public comments on ALL images it sure is an eye-opener to what people will highly praise. It just doesn't mean what it did when I first started out by ANY means.
BTW: I was a photo-moderator/approver there two years. You wouldn't believe the number of images I rejected every day.....plagerized (mostly stolen were copies of Mike Hollingshead's work), etc. Heck....some guy uploaded my FRIENDS images one day!! LOL. Silly rabbits.
Another reason why this site is so wonderful. Integrity.
Snuffy2
Member
Squirl, Leia, Chito, BobH, Been thinking about this issue all day, Should not have taken squirl's comments to too much heart, after all, I asked for it!, as for Facebook, last month I posted about 200 photo's from slides that were taken from a screen setup, camera set on tripod with projector running, I was overwhelmed by the great praise, but now been thinking, it was not HOW I took them, or if they were realy any good, they were only looking at the content that brought back so many memories from 40 years ago. Still cherish how many people I got so excited about the past.
Snuffy2
Member
When i compared simple Facebook photo's comments to PNWPhoto's comments, it was not a fair judgemnt, why cant PNWPhoto comments be as good or better than Facebook?
thats where i went wrong, I admit it.
Now that we have seen how good photo's can look in this site, then compare those to Facebook that uses a download system just good enough to show content, nothing else. After all, its only a social network...
thats where i went wrong, I admit it.
Now that we have seen how good photo's can look in this site, then compare those to Facebook that uses a download system just good enough to show content, nothing else. After all, its only a social network...
Critiques are a good thing even if they seem harsh. I'd rather have a critique that I can learn from even if it might seem harsh than have no comments at all. That one's art generates no interest at all is probably the worst. No comment is a comment in itself, probably the worst kind of critque.
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BrianH
New Member
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